Hey Lunies!
I have to post this, with the risk of getting blasted for it.
The more I read here on the boards, the more I see change.

In 11 years CLOWN has changed in many ways. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. We have all grown in real life as well.

In the begining in Ultima there was CLOWN school and to me, that started it all. Helping people learn the game and helping people get what they needed. Starting people on an enjoyable ride. There were days where we did nothing at all except throw pie. (Just doing nothing constructive except being social with eachother) There was organized dungeon runs and there were the unorganized, complete chaos dungeon runs that got us all killed over and over and all we did was smile. Tempers rarely flaired because everyone was too drunk to care. (Come on! Trying to rez with no regs in your pack. Sucked for the poor bugger that needed the rez. But we got through it) Pie was abound and rules were on occasion broken. Rarely but it happened. It was talked about within guild and decisions were made based on rules and if the person deserved a second chance. (Oh how many times I created trouble within our guild for more than one reason. NOT always my fault!! I just tended to pick the bad boys to hang with in guild! THE SHY ONES SCARED ME )What happened to those days?
We went to SWG and chaes happened to the guild. The game play was different and we had aged, both in guild ways and in our own real lives. SWG was still good as a guild, just different values came into play because of our maturity in our real lives. (I also think you all started drinking less)
We had less time to play because of work,friends, wives,husbands, children. The things we wanted to ascertain were done in a more determined manner. Time was more of the essance, so to speak. Things were trying to be more organized in game due to our real lives becoming more organized with less "me time" to play. Brandies were still being spilled at the keyboards, insults were still being thrown, the CLOWN love was still there for your fellow guildmate, even if they were a pervert....the love/ hate between us was always there. But I did notice change. I knew it was because we were becoming responsible adults. (Oh how I hated to see that happen to us. Some of us just can't handle being an adult, we are much better suited to being children at heart. And playing an adult just doesn't work for some of us, myself included)
I know I couldn't follow you to WOW due to my geographical location. (Which, might I add has made me sad for years) I can assure you I have no idea what gameplay has been like in WOW. I have only seen bits and pieces of what has been posted here. It seems we have evolved again. We are older in many ways. We have seen so many people come and go. Emotions have always been drama in guild. Weather it be a broken heart, a raid gone bad, someone not sponsoring a responsible candidate. I see more and more rules being implimented. Which can be both good and bad, especially when it comes to this guild. I see it being organized more then it ever has been. More enforcement then it ever has had. Again this can be caused by the guild age, the gameplay, we our in our real lives more mature/dissipline this plays a part in all this as well. (Some of us are pushing over the hill. *cough cough* myself included) Personality conflicts have always been abound in this guild as well.
I guess what I am saying is..take a minute. Think of what we were, where we have gone, where do we want to go. Think of what happened to the "devil may care but I don't" attitude we started with. Think of if the guild is the same as what it started as, if not why? Think of how you have evolved as a human (or whatever your real life structure maybe be...IE. Lord Afgan -alien in the devils body) also think about those that have left and why they have left. Do this a neutral manner..keep your mind open and close out your own biased values...(everyone is biased because each of us has their own values. But we open our minds for opinions) Think about the past councils. How were they made? How was a guildmaster in a game elected? a warmaster elected? I wish you all to think about Has CLOWN changed the rules based on the games they have played? or have they changed based on real lives maturing? Is CLOWN still the "
Die with a smile and complete chaos "it originally started as? Does CLOWN still help anyone in need or do they only help those that they feel are what they want in guild? Many moons ago you helped anyone because that is how you found candidates.
I know we are all getting older in our real lives. Not all of us are in the games we want to be. Some of us are hopeless romantics and wish things would stay the same. But we all evolve as people , as a guild, as the games evolve. But I see CLOWN for what it originally was.....a bunch of lunies, helping others, being friendly and throwing pie. Not a bunch of politicans making decisions and rules to follow to the letter.

RULES were made to be BROKEN! Then forgiveness and second chances. I would hate to think CLOWN has forgotten about pie and chaos and disorganization and the love/hate relationship we all have.

Please tell me CLOWN is not aging to the ways of being comfortable and "set in our ways" tell me this guild is not going to conform to those standards...that truely would be heartbreaking.

ok enough of my ramblings. I have no idea why I wrote this.I guess, just to make us all think of why we are here..Why we are all CLOWN. And of course to prove that even though I stay in SWG it doesn't mean I am stupid or even not with you all in spirit. I can still be a pain in the backside to you all here with my posts LOL

*hugs*
LadyCleo

I read this and its hard not to agree on what is said.
I really loved helping out new guys in swg. I really did. Making their first harvester **

Its like you say that the adult life is picking up and there is less game time and when you play its like you want it to be a blast each time (kinda).

The social aspect of the game is more into raiding then just hanging out.
BUT with that said there is still some 2AM drunkish, tiredish runs to takeover a small horde town or to defend a poor lvl 70 fisherman from hords.. Its still there.. and the hanging out part is atleast for me mostly on skype while doing daileys or instances. Skype has most of the socialising for me.. If one is not on skype with friends I guess the guild can look very unsocial. All that could have been written is spooken on skype instead..

LOL guess I should start talking on headsets again. Was trying to refrain due to the lasttime I did that with CLOWN was DANGEROUS!

Besides I am not sure my swedish is good enough to "talk" anymore.

easier for me to type english and be understood then speak engllish and be laughed at and asked "what" a million times LOL

Cleo

?

Nice post cleo

You shouldnt be too worried about your swedish. They all speak english

ps. No one knows about Saxon/Demos though. Can he even speak?

Hello Lady Cleo

I must say, what a great post ! It works and you starts to think

Personally i carry alot of the responsebility, of the way things have evolved in Clown, especially during WoW, for good and bad. You know me from way back in UO (Amoun here btw ), and you know for sure that i personally was NOT the organized, carefull and diplomacy gifted player back then, and i did not respond to rules at all, nor invent them ...

Ultima Online was to the members in Clown back then, like a "first love thing" ... Back then we all debuted in online games with UO, and Clown was our first guild, our first community to be in. Whether we all chases that "first love thing" again and again now, in all the games that have been released since UO, we will for sure never experience it again.
Since UO Clown have also been growing, and with all the new members the guild dont have that "brother/sister" feeling among the members anymore. I think that is only natural ...
WoW has not been the prime game for the Clown community ! I am not sure that it ever could have been, not even if we had done things different in the beginning of WoW. The mechanics in the game itself, do not offer the same things to be "together on", like UO and later on SWG had, with like a guild town, crafting/vendors etc ...
WoW is just like; Do PvE or PvP to accomplish "goals" .. You can ofcourse do that together, but you can be as succesfull on your own, or together with unknown players, as you can be in group of friends/guildies ....

Also as you mention ... AGE !!!!! In UO we were mostly on the same age, but now in WoW there's a rather large different in age between our members. I am sure that most of the new young players we meet in WoW, who is playing their first online game, would have acted differently if the game mechanics in WoW was similar to UO ... But it's not ... Players in WoW simply ain't as entusiastic and loyal to their guild, as we saw in UO. And that is why we're making/implementing so many rules in Clown WoW - most WoW guild have even more rules that we do - it's needed to have those rules to ensure the guild will continiue in WoW also ...

The drama's we will never get totally rid of - and somehow we shouldn't, as it just proves yet again, that we have alot of members of the Clown community that really cares for the guild, so much that they sometimes acts non-diplomatic ...

But as always, Clown will continiue to be there, also in the next realm ...

BRING IN THE CLOWNS !!!

Gloom wrote:

ps. No one knows about Saxon/Demos though. Can he even speak?

For now i only write ...
If i do speak on skype, TS or elsewhere, there will be double the chance that i'll do something wrong and hurt someone !!!

Saxon wrote:

Gloom wrote: ps. No one knows about Saxon/Demos though. Can he even speak? For now i only write ... If i do speak on skype, TS or elsewhere, there will be double the chance that i'll do something wrong and hurt someone !!!

Nah..come on brother. Join the singing!

Nice explanation Saxon! (Amoun? Who the hell is he? Never heard of him!! )Helps me to understand better what I see here on the boards.


[/quote]Personally i carry alot of the responsebility, of the way things have evolved in Clown, especially during WoW, for good and bad. You know me from way back in UO (Amoun here btw ), and you know for sure that i personally was NOT the organized, carefull and diplomacy gifted player back then, and i did not respond to rules at all, nor invent them ...
[quote]

You responsible???!! WOW the guild has gone bad *shakeshead* what are they thinking? Yeah I know you and I can't disagree with any of the above *giggle*

I have to disagree though, i didn't debut in UO I had played LOK with another guild prior to my UO days (YES I am OLD!!)
You hit the nail on the head with the "brother/sister"thing. That is what I miss. I miss the bro or sis that used to watch my back. (not my butt) You knew someone would be there to catch you before you fell or on the rare occasion you fell, there was alawyas someone there to step on you...I mean pick you up.

In your always thorough explanations of things, it really makes sense to me now, what I see here. It just seemed as though we were losing sight of the original "eat pie and die with a smile" I just wanted people to think and I guess I have done that.

Sometimes it's good to remember the old days so you can make sure your future is going in the right direction. There are other times you would chose to forget your past and not remeber where you could have gone or where you did go

I know only too well about regret! I do take time to look back and think to make sure I don't have large regrets! I have enough of them, I now choose not to aquire anymore.

I also have to say, by posting this thread. I can see you all are still as intelligent as I thought. You just hide it well

I do hope in the future we can call play together again. Although at my age I am begining to think I will be dead before they make a game that isn't country server based.

By the way, if you all are talking to eachother. I am feeling left out. What you all using to talk and I can see if I can get brave enough to come visit.

*hugs*
LadyCleo

TBH its the way that mmorpgs took after eq2 -and especielly after the HUGE succes with WOW (in subscribers) that are to blame. - not the guild. The guild just tries to do its best in these types of mmorpgs (many uf us are DIEYING for a more sandboxed mmorpg - not the liner wow clones with quests that tells you what to do next)

Ofc CLOWNs can and prob are ( since i dont play wow) doing great in wow as a guild. But todays wow-clones arent really suited for a "social" guild.

there are so many ingame fetures that prohibits it..some ppl have more play time, and wanne "advance"...in UO and SWg there really wasnt any "END-game" it was what you made it..YOU and ME, we togheter shaped and formed the world - WE filled it with our content.

the wow-clones are so diffrent from that. You get quest that tells you what to do - lead you forward - and when ppl run out of quests - they have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO O.O... and everything leads up to the endgame dungeons...that you farm over and over for gear... and those who are not at the lvl requiremtn gets letf behind, and when they finally catch up - those who farmed over and over - wanne move on... thats the prob game mechanics....not the guild itself.

I loath wow and wow-clones...was really hopeing for darkfall..but still have my eyes out for mortalonline...

Wow Lord Afgan! I am impressed

*faints*

need i say more?


I hate too say this but I think I agree with Saxon and Lord Afghan......(WHY do I always end up agreeing with these 2 CLOWNs?) ....if the games run as you say...I can see now why the guild has changed the way it has. I do hope, if we find another "sandbox" to play in, it can be more like the social aspects we had. I just can't go out and be told what to do by the game and then that be the end. I need constant content from game or social aspects. I am a non conformist. you all knew that. I never do what I am told unless of course I have good reason to

But I am glad this post made you all think a little and post why things have gone the way they have. it helps those of us "who got left behind" feel a little less left out, so to speak.

LadyCleo......Wonder who ever changed my name from Cleo to LadyCleo

Aye Darkfall was my hope but that was an epic fail.
EVE is awesome but not for everyone it seems

WOW suffers from the fact that you have different waves of people progressing through the game.
Wave 1 = those who play the most - game time = grind time and you gotta be in it to win it
Wave 2 = those who play steadily and if they push hard they can achieve some of what Wave 1 did before wave 1 looses the will to keep doing it
Wave 3 = those who started late or just play slower.... they keep arriving at places just after everyone else left and are in a permanent state of "but what about me...." When you find yourself in this group you either find others in that group and hope they are the right people... if they are then you can move fast and try to catch up with wave 2.

There are many many waves and each interact with those around them in the same way. Even Wave 5 will eventually get bored of doing the stuff that Wave 7 is only just reaching and will be pushing to do Wave 4 stuff before Wave 4 moves on too far to want to help.

If we were a huge guild or one that was constantly growing then we would constantly be absorbing people to keep each wave happy and things would keep propogating.... in wow we are not and that is one of the things which affect the wave dynamics (I'm going to make slides and give a presentation about this!)

Lol Light!

In Burning crusade I at one point realised Ulfa would not come passed kara so I went on for pvp instead (like 90% of the server). I know the feeling. I do belive though that in wotlk the gap is smaller.
This due to the many ways of getting gear. IF you do voa and sart you will eventually get emblems and gear. (have I said this before?:) And in heroics you also get emblems so...
I really belive they have made the gap less distinct.

BUT

If you dont even do them weekly stuffs then you are to be in wave 42 and I guess you are clueless why you are on your own farming frog skinns.

But I agree so much that this is not the ideal game for me and probably not many other clowns. The helpful ulfberg - Master architect spirit is R.I.P

Lord_afghan wrote:

TBH its the way that mmorpgs took after eq2 -and especielly after the HUGE succes with WOW (in subscribers) that are to blame. - not the guild. The guild just tries to do its best in these types of mmorpgs (many uf us are DIEYING for a more sandboxed mmorpg - not the liner wow clones with quests that tells you what to do next) Ofc CLOWNs can and prob are ( since i dont play wow) doing great in wow as a guild. But todays wow-clones arent really suited for a "social" guild. there are so many ingame fetures that prohibits it..some ppl have more play time, and wanne "advance"...in UO and SWg there really wasnt any "END-game" it was what you made it..YOU and ME, we togheter shaped and formed the world - WE filled it with our content. the wow-clones are so diffrent from that. You get quest that tells you what to do - lead you forward - and when ppl run out of quests - they have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO O.O... and everything leads up to the endgame dungeons...that you farm over and over for gear... and those who are not at the lvl requiremtn gets letf behind, and when they finally catch up - those who farmed over and over - wanne move on... thats the prob game mechanics....not the guild itself. I loath wow and wow-clones...was really hopeing for darkfall..but still have my eyes out for mortalonline...

A clear sign of how we've changed and matured - Affie makes sense!

UO allowed us to be chaotic and disorganised but in WoW that's just not possible... and it's not so much fun that way

These games need to be much more open, and have less restrictions. UO worked as you *had* to be nice to people or they'd kill you

Slinver wrote:

UO worked as you *had* to be nice to people or they'd kill you

And wasn't that a charm ....