Possible Solution ?

Post subject: Re: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 05:16 PM

Lord_afghan wrote:

Yea it will be fun when you get public polls and realize that 76% of the guild wants you out of the guild......not....

LOOOOOL That s a HUGE comment! LOLOLOL

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:06 PM

Ye, Nice idea Pagor Razz

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:22 PM

Perhaps people will behave if they know they will be voted for if they missbehave ? Smile

*chuckles*

Post subject: Re: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:31 PM

So, are you applying??????

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:34 PM

lol i was talking about Being voted for (kicked from the guild thingy, you know )

Yoiu think me being a Councilor will make peole behave ? haha

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:35 PM

Dunno if they'll behave... But I know they'll be scared!!!! Very Happy

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:36 PM

lol look at me and say that i look like a nice guy ?

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:40 PM

Is it really you on the pic???? Dang I thought it was John Merrick!

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 06:43 PM

Ohh man i will now kill you when i get my hands around your neck !

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 03:58 PM

Thought more seriously about the vote thing. In fact the fact I was exposed to such system, and that it pretty hurt my feelings, helped me in this Smile

Vote is ok as long as people voting aren't anonymous. Why?

Let's take a simple example:
I behave like a bad boy, eating all the guild cakes before the RL meeting (someone did that I think Twisted Evil

), using Crow's pet as sex toy Shocked

and having a laugh a Gloom as he needs a cane to walk because of his old age Yar good

. The council warns me, spank me with a herring but I just ignore all they are saying. Then comes the time they decide to toss me in a fjord with bottles of Glögg filled with sand.

The council start a poll: "Should we toss Corny in the Fjord?" - Yes/No
89% of the CLOWNs vote yes. My fate is sealed!

Needless to say that I'm not quite happy with the idea of drowning due to bottles filled with sand. Dang, at least I should have the time to empty the bottles myself. People start comforting me with "ooooh, so sad you're gonna drown".

But what will happen if the vote was anonymous? Simple: whatever the mate online will tell you, you will always think that he might be one of those who voted for your death. You feel uncomfortable with that and will end up avoiding seeing all people that are in the guild.

=> Vote should not be anonymous. In the case we are discussing it would be for the "banning" of a member. I think the minimum we can ask is that people voting "kick" sign with their name. At least the guy facing the judgement will know who decided it and will have the freedom to decide if he understands or if he prefers breaking contact. And it would avoid the council to bear the full responsibility of sanctions. Afyer all, we're adults, even if CLOWNs Very Happy

Let's think about some more Wink

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 04:22 PM

Quote::

I behave like a bad boy, eating all the guild cakes before the RL meeting (someone did that I think ), using Crow's pet as sex toy and having a laugh a Gloom as he needs a cane to walk because of his old age

Nasty man

I agree with you about the anonymous voting, but i'm not sure visible voting would work either, simply because people may not vote honestly if they know the person that they are voting 'against' can see that they have.

Sorry, I know this doesn't help at all, just my thoughts on it.

The Travelling Joined: Aug 13, 2006 Posts: 167 CLOWN

Quote::

I agree with you about the anonymous voting, but i'm not sure visible voting would work either, simply because people may not vote honestly if they know the person that they are voting 'against' can see that they have.

My thoughts too Slin, I think either way we're stuffed on that one. I don't see any way of getting around the problem that ppl are going to feel uncomfortable in a guild that has (at least in part) tried to kick them, whether they know exactly who it was or not.

Honestly I think this would be up to the individual involved to be strong enough to take this kind of 'criticism' and deal with it honorably and without predjudice against those who may have instigated the action against them. As has been said before (by Affie mostly) sometimes these s**t descisions are necessary and have to be made.

Post subject: Possible Solution ? Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 05:30 PM

Well Perhaps 3 options

1 = Yes

2 = No

3 = I wish for the council to decide that matter.

Either way we all get to vote and cant say we got overunned.

Just some toughts

Post subject: Re: Possible Solution ? Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:35 AM

I want to set a date on when i will have the discussion on TS with the council and i also would like to have two other CLOWNs with us on TS.

Edit: and i promise that i will behave the best i can, but only if i do not get provoked.

(i cant bite on TS you know, you'll be safe)

Post subject: Re: Possible Solution ? Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 09:36 AM

Kicking out of the guild is a really serious matter. I think that voting a yes on that does require a name. Because if I condemn someone to be banished, it's part of this decision to say "I do". Otherwise it's too easy to say yes and then just say you're sorry...

I don't quite understand the point of people saying that the council decide because some might feel bad to vote a yes. First, if they do feel bad, they should not vote yes and remain neutral. Then it's a bit too easy to say that the council is responsible for the kick and to wash your hands saying "I didn't take the decision".

Why named? I dunno how I can explain this without bringing the example on the table, which I don't want Smile

So I'll try to find another one, that is happening at work. Both things really made me feel sick for some time.

I'm a Project Manager and was supposed to go for sen ior project management. Due to "concflict of interest" I have to move from team. The manager of the team is in fact a close friend and it's difficult for him to manage me which is understandable. We discussed this (hot discussion!) and we decided it was better to stay friend and split our areas of work. Then in fact I came in the first line for critics... Meaning: free target for anyone, don't leave a name... Result of it was: I am not even a PM anylonger. I have to go do some shit technical work that might get better in the future ("We'll see how you do"). Decision is taken by top management that never followed what I was doing and based its decision on this no name feedback system. And now I have tons of people coming to my office saying "I heard the news! Sooooo sorry for you! I don't get it, you were really doing a great job". Amongst those, some have probably said very bad things on me, that ended up in a sanction. I don't know who it was, and will never know. I started searching for a new job even if I continue smiling saying "Oh, it might be a great challenge". Once gone I will never speak to any of my colleagues here again cause there will always be a doubt.

What can you learn with that: Saying top decide isn't helping much and puts all the bad work on the top table (I think the council should be used for better things than that). No name voting isn't helping much either. Voting with name while giving the opportunity to people to other to disagree (in the way "No, don't kick him, he's a great guy") seems for me the best way to go. And if someone votes yes, it's also good to say why. This way you learn, you grow. Getting kicked again from another guild for the same reason would be sad. The only think we must be sure is that: no reaction and argumentation can be done on the vote subject. We can find way to do this. And if I decide to vote for a kick, I would be ready to discuss with the person and say why I did so. Maybe I could change my mind, maybe not. But I would always leave a door open...

Hope it helps understand my point. Reactions please... C'mon... Hurry... Bored at work atm Smile

Out of subject: Sasch, please post all things related to your problem on the same post mate Wink

But I saw the request and I'll try to be there the day of the discussion.